Another nutrition question

[andrea]

ogm's grain question reminded me of something I've been seeing in one of my horses. Soxy is a 25 year old appaloosa, always has been fat and it's a huge chore keeping her weight down. But since her diet commenced when one of our other horses started to founder, I've noticed that Soxy's back looks "poor" while her belly is still large. I know it's not worms, I suspect it is the big belly horses with heaves/COPD get. The belly isn't what's bothering me, it's her back, and whether it is telling me I need to change her diet. Her whole body looks and feels fine & fleshy, but her back, which was already swayed, is now falling away from her spine on either side, whereas before she was so fat her spine was a dent all down her back.

Thoughts? I'm wondering if she needs some more protein in her diet? She gets only grass hay, a small amount of beet pulp (1/2 cup at most) and vitamins/minerals and probiotics.

[Laura]

Here is a blurb from the Washington State University Extension:

There are a couple of reasons why your horse may be losing weight in his topline. The most common is if he is an older horse. Many older horses will start to lose the topline quality regardless of exercise. However, in order to help prevent this from occurring, keeping the animal physically fit is best. Higher fat diets may also help keep the topline, but this will not work in every case in the older animal. You can try adding 1 to 2 lb of rice bran to the daily ration. Many people will tell you that protein is the problem; however, this is not the case. Most older horses will not need high protein to maintain condition, just a good-quality protein source and the addition of a fat source.



Here's another opinion about it -- The answerer's credentials are quite impressive in the equine nutrition department. There is a comment I'd never heard before about adding yeast to help metabolize the fiber. I think I will try that with my oldster.

en.allexperts.com/q/Horses-Diet-Nutrition-3330/2010/9/boosting-horses-weight.htm

[harry]

Laura's post is right on, If you research endurance horses and metabolism fat is a more readily used form of energy vs protein. so things like bran, oil, beat pulp. One of our older horses needed to be in a corral by himself so he could come and go free choice grass hay so he didn't have to compete with the younger fast eating horses and he's looking better now. we use only grass hay- brome, timothy, orchard, fescue types but generally stay away from blue grass. If they are under weight just give more and if over weight cut back.

[andrea]

Thank you! Good information and now I think I have a plan. I'm going to get some flax and brewer's yeast for her today. Luckily I can buy those in small amounts at Winco so I don't have to spend a bunch at once.

There is yeast in her HorseGuard and her probiotic (CRS Equine Gold - good stuff, and very affordable from ValleyVet), but it doesn't give amounts, just lists it in the ingredients. But I know she's not chewing as well as she used to (teeth are up-to-date, just not much tooth left) so anything to help digestion ought to be good. She can be very gassy, I wonder if that's because she's having trouble digesting fiber.

I was resisting adding fat to her diet because I know it can be bad for an insulin resistant horse. But looking on the Equine Cushings site, flax is okay, and even beneficial in other ways - helps protect against founder. Dr. Kellon says 4oz a day is good.

My problem is when I start one horse on something, I want to give it to them all, and it becomes a chore to grind that much flax at once, not to mention the expense. I'll have to resist my urges.

I know it could just be her getting old, or her metabolic issues getting worse, but I can't just sit by and not try anything...

[hkfarms]

I've heard they digest it fine whole if you wanted to feed it your horses with good teeth. I buy it ground already, only because that's all I could find in this area, otherwise whole is a lot cheaper.

[andrea]

I used to feed it whole to Tonka, but he'd poop it out whole too. I didn't want to grind it so I just hoped he got some good out of it.

I might look for some stabilized ground flax seed so I don't have to ruin my coffee grinder, but it's so expensive if you have to buy it all at once in a 50lb bag.

Here's a picture of Soxy I took today. You can see she's not thin, and if you didn't know her you'd probably think she looks fine, but she never had that roach back before and her spine sticks out like it never has before.



I remembered today that I can let her out on pasture with her grazing muzzle (duh) so she can get some exercise. I just need to get one for Bella too so she can go out and encourage Soxy to move around.

[mindyjo]

You can buy a good bag of already ground flaxseed at costco for pretty reasonably too, if that helps. This was very interested. Thanks everyone for posting. I am new.

[FlyingCowgirl]

Soxy looks great Andrea but I can understand your concern. Let us know how the diet changes go. I never really knew that nutrition changes could help out an older horse with sway back/or muscle loss in the back/spine area.

[andrea]

I don't think anything could help with the swayback, she's been like that since we got her, but I think I might be able to get some of that muscle back somehow.

[andrea]

Soxy is off her feed tonight and was very lethargic today. If you guys don't mind sending some prayers or healing, comforting thoughts, I'd really appreciate it. I'm worried about her going downhill like this.

[20xsweetcowgirl]

I hope things get better soon!!!

[FlyingCowgirl]

Thinking about you and Soxy, hope she starts feeling better real soon!

[Laura]

Healing thoughts sent for Soxy!

[andrea]

She was a little slow to get to eating this morning, but tonight she dug right in. Hopefully whatever the trouble was, it's over now. I probably worry too much...

[d2allen]

Hi,

I've been following the Foxy story and hoping she will rally. Now that it is so cold and blizzard conditions, she might be further stressed since she is a senior. One thing to consider for Foxy is soaked beet pulp. It is a nice way to get moisture, roughage and protein into the horse, especially the older horse who's teeth aren't too good. Plus, it's safe for insulin resistant horses as long as you rinse it after soaking to remove sugars.

You can make soaked beet pulp more enticing with a drizzle of molasses, and some chopped apples and/or carrots. If the horse hasn't eaten beet pulp before they might refuse, but don't give up! Introduce it slowly, add goodies, make it enticing, and they will start eating it.

Deidre

[andrea]

Soxy does get beet pulp every day, actually all my horses do, some more than others. I've started giving her a lot more than i did before I noticed her going down hill. Even when she wasn't eating her hay she did eat that. They all love it (although one of them insists I fix it a specific way or he'll spill his). I've been making it extra wet with lots of warm water during this gross weather.

[StillPlayswithHorses]

I send out extra prayers for you guys!! Hope Soxy feels better soon.

[d2allen]

Andrea,

How's Soxy doing? Is she blanketed? In a stall?

You can up the soaked beet pulp if she isn't eating her hay. It's a good hay substitute and good source of protein (9%). Add some rice bran if you have it - 1 lb beet pulp (presoaked wt) to 2 oz rice bran. Balances Ca and Phos. Also, add some iodized salt (1-2 Tbl). Horses need iodine and the salt causes them to drink more water, which is good, especially when it is so cold. Is her water heated?

I'm sure you are doing everything you can. If she isn't eating and seems depressed, might be time to call your vet. Keep us posted.

Deidre

[andrea]

She's doing well. Actually, just this morning I found out what's been wrong with her. She has had a "sinus infection" in the past, and now she's got nasal discharge again. I suspect it's actually a guttural pouch infection. I've talked to my vet about it plenty in the past. We get it under control and then it comes back. I can't afford to have it scoped and flushed repeatedly or operated on, so I'm just doing what I can with antibiotics. I started her on tetracycline today and I'll call my vet tomorrow, he'll probably have me add SMZ/TMP tablets as well. I gave her bute this morning even though my vet says it probably doesn't help. If I had an infection like that I'd want ibuprofen...

She is eating fine, has been since I last updated that she was eating fine, and she's not depressed. There was just the one night she didn't want her hay. Water is heated, she doesn't need added salt - she spends a LOT of time at her iodized salt block. She's getting a couple gallons (soaked) of beet pulp plus alfalfa pellets, HorseGuard, Remission, CRS Equine Gold probiotics, freshly ground flax seed, a tiny bit of a grain mix my dad left here, and some soybean oil. Plus more orchardgrass hay than she can eat and heated water. She can be in or out of the stall, and I did blanket her for one day but she didn't appreciate it. The snow was keeping her coat from fluffing up and her back was wet, so I kept her blanketed during that time.

[d2allen]

Hi Andrea,

Guttural pouch infection is outside my area of expertise, though I've heard it can be quite stubborn. At least you are covering all your basic care and nutritional bases, which is so important. Plus the temps aren't as cold now, so that's a good thing.

Deidre